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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
264
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Posted - 2013.03.04 13:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Think I'll write a couple bonus hours at the clients expense now... actually make it a years worth of boosters while at it :)
Tbh I don't like this boosted p2w aspect; these should have a hard cap on the sp (no gains after 6M sp or similiar). Hopefully the Omega means there won't be any stronger boosters coming. Agreed 100% trolls. Booster should not work for characters with 6 million + skillpoints. I don't like it either. And the 'Pay to advance faster is not pay to win' argument doesn't pass the smell test, so nobody, CCP devs included, needs to parrot that here. Basically CCP is selling skillpoints. It doesn't give me a more powerful weapon or tougher armor, but it does make for a significantly stronger character. It's sneakier and hard-to-quantify, but the vets all know the skillpoints make a real difference on the battlefeild. Why dress it up as a booster? Why not just sell the $killpoints, CCP? When i face an opponent on the battlefeild, i want to know we worked for our skillpoints equally hard. Maybe he was smarter about it, maybe he spent his points more wisely, but we had equal opportunity to do so. Will i buy it? You bet your ass I will, because, I will capitalize on every unfair advantage that CCP let's me capitalize on. Can I afford it? TBH, i won't even notice that the money's been spent. But it still makes me feel dirty. Agreed. It's not pay to win, but it isn't far from it. It's P2W.... unless you are just good enough to counteract it. Yes, new players will be behind in gear, but letting other players who are just as good and started at the same time fall behind because they don't P2Play? Come on.
When there are two players of equal skill on the field, gear is the tie breaker. When one of those players "pays to get ahead", is that P2W? Gear being the tie breaker in this, and gear being accessible due to SP, and more SP available due to AUR, and AUR available with money. It may not be completely P2W, but it's certainly it's P2W's nappy jobless cousin who never comes over on the holidays.
There does need to be a hard cap on SP available from boosters. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
265
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Posted - 2013.03.04 19:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:When the player market is up and running you will be able to buy this thing for ISK (along with every other AUR item). So how is that pay 2 win? Seriously...I want someone to explain to me how something that can be purchased with either real money or ISK is pay 2 win? How is that in any way unfair? Sure, it'll be a lot of ISK compared to regular gear but so what? Because the market is NOT up yet. You cannot say a game is currently balanced because of changes they will make some time in the eventual future because it has no bearing on how balanced it is right now. Next argument please. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
265
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Posted - 2013.03.04 19:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:When the player market is up and running you will be able to buy this thing for ISK (along with every other AUR item). So how is that pay 2 win? Seriously...I want someone to explain to me how something that can be purchased with either real money or ISK is pay 2 win? How is that in any way unfair? Sure, it'll be a lot of ISK compared to regular gear but so what? Because the market is NOT up yet. You cannot say a game is currently balanced because of changes they will make some time in the eventual future because it has no bearing on how balanced it is right now. Next argument please. These aren't "changes" in the "eventual future", they are "features" when the game is "finished". If someone's building me a house and I decided to start sleeping there before they've put the roof on it do I sue them because my stuff got wet in the rain? And "how balanced it is right now" is irrelevant if they already have the features planned to address the issue. So everyone can stop whining or just go away until the game is released. So basically you are saying "It doesn't matter how broken it is right now, because later, at an undisclosed time in the future, after the top paying players have pulled even FURTHER ahead of everyone else, it will be fixed when the game is released". Yeah, makes a lot of sense. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
265
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Posted - 2013.03.04 21:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:So basically you are saying "It doesn't matter how broken it is right now, because later, at an undisclosed time in the future, after the top paying players have pulled even FURTHER ahead of everyone else, it will be fixed when the game is released". Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Yea, that's exactly what I'm saying. That's what you agreed to when you signed up for this, that you understood things would be broken. CCP has a plan in place (read: "major aspect of the game that isn't ready yet") that will balance it out so until they implement that you can deal with it or you can wait for the market to be implemented before playing again. Waiting for release to fix things, which is exactly what they did for all of the other broken elements in Dust, like the grenade spam and the missile spam. Oh, wait....
When something is massively disadvantaging players, you at least put in a temp fix to keep it from getting out of hand until it can be sorted out. Missiles were heavily nerfed because they were putting well over half of the Dust population (the non-vehicle and non-turret gunner portion) at a disadvantage. They nerfed it to keep it from staying an issue until they could get back around to fixing the issue. Grenades were luckily an easy fix since all they had to do was put the old fuse method back onto them with the new mechanics.
This would be an easy fix as well, all you would have to do is lock the boosters like that guy said a few posts ago once players reach a certain SP level. Their SP income would return to normal once the market opened up, and in the mean time newer players would have the chance to work hard and narrow the gap little by little. It's not like I need to be 3 Mil SP ahead of everyone else to win, I'm just fine with playing on even footing.
If you lock the boosters, people can keep the time left on the boosters they paid for, people under the SP booster cap would still get to boost, and when the market opens up EVERYONE can buy boosters and the locked boosters would get reactivated. I have no sympathy for people who feel they need to be millions of SP ahead of others to win, and I have no sympathy for CCP who is making plenty off their AUR proto suits, so I have no qualms with it. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
267
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Posted - 2013.03.04 22:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Juan Mortime wrote:I honestly dont think the active boosters are P2W. fps gaming is equal parts skill and luck. I have 3.2mill sp's sometimes i can take a proto heavy down with my exile. other times i get taken down in my logi II by a guy with militia gear. Yes skills help but gaming skill is the key part. you could have 10mill sps and a big a** heavy with 2000 armor and a balac rifle but if he doesnt know his a** from his elbow he'll die just as easily. its liek in eve. a noob can go out spend billions of isk or hundreds of dollars on a titan pilot, he can go out and buy a titan but chances are he wont know how to fit it and will die a horrible death to the first moros he comes across and it'll be on youtube before his clone gets reanimated. You are confusing skill based SP gain with booster based SP gain. You already get more SP for being skilled. Buying a booster doesn't make you more skilled, yet it still gives you more SP.
I'm....
I'm not.... sure what you were trying to get at here.... or how you being... skilled by... buying active boosters.... isn't P2W....
****head explodes**** |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
269
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Posted - 2013.03.05 05:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Eltra Ardell wrote:Glad to see pubbies in Dust are just as dumb and quick to cry out as pubbies in World of Tanks. I'm sorry, but paying to grind less is not pay to win. You're getting to the same place, and in the mean time you're still effective as a player.
That is, as long as you're not some publord that needs SP to do a damned thing out there. I've got about 1m SP in skills, running in a Raven BPO suit with the first assault rifle and SMG. As long as I'm not fighting against a full corp squad (which is something CCP needs to work on; two squads vs. none results in a slaughter most of the time), I get plenty of WP, kills, and victories.
This booster does nothing but remove limitations on getting you where you want to go. Now you don't have to spend a million years grinding out SP to hop into a tank that's worth a damn, or getting your core fitting skills, or finally getting into the second tier weaponry skills.
The only reason why you'd be complaining right now is because you have this idea that somehow someone with a couple million more SP than you will be several times more broken as he gains more and more SP. Unfortunately, effectiveness on the battlefield doesn't scale linearly (or better) with your SP once you're past about a million. At best, the higher SP player will have either more options on the battlefield or be 2% more effective (since he got that skill to 5 instead of 4). These boosters help people like you and me with low SP more than they do those with high SP, so stop whining and ask your mom to buy them for you.
I would only like to point out a couple things-
Paying to grind less would mean increasing SP gain but not increasing the cap for the week. Currently you get increased SP gain AND an increased cap. The grind is still endless since skills will be added for as long as the game is around, but the weekly grind is just as long regardless of whether you have a booster active or not. So no, people are not paying to grind less, they are paying to get ahead.
A million SP is nowhere near getting you into gear needed to compete with others in high level gear unless you happen to be a Dust savant (not likely). ~3.5 mil maybe, depending on your character build and if you are specializing.
2% more effective when your class is maxed out? When you have a 25% bonus to your base shield and armor health from mechanics and shield control, 30% damage bonus from weaponry and proficiency skills, 25% extra range with your sharpshooter skill and proficiency, not to mention the myriad of other passive boosts and also not counting the additional mods & gear you can fit onto higher level dropsuits? Oh yeah, that only makes you a 2% more effective.
Once you max your core skills, you can branch out to make yourself more versatile. So even though the maxed AR player isn't getting any better with his AR, he's boosting his skills with his mass driver so he can switch to it and grenade spam you with it mid match, causing you to have to adapt without the advantage of his versatility.
Lastly, we do corp battles plenty, and if anything a players versatility and SP gain is even more pronounced in a corp match than in a pub match. Try playing a corp battle before you start calling others pubbies. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
269
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Posted - 2013.03.05 08:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eltra Ardell wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:I would only like to point out a couple things- Paying to grind less would mean increasing SP gain but not increasing the cap for the week. Currently you get increased SP gain AND an increased cap. The grind is still endless since skills will be added for as long as the game is around, but the weekly grind is just as long regardless of whether you have a booster active or not. So no, people are not paying to grind less, they are paying to get ahead. A million SP is nowhere near getting you into gear needed to compete with others in high level gear unless you happen to be a Dust savant (not likely). ~3.5 mil maybe, depending on your character build and if you are specializing. 2% more effective when your class is maxed out? When you have a 25% bonus to your base shield and armor health from mechanics and shield control, 30% damage bonus from weaponry and proficiency skills, 25% extra range with your sharpshooter skill and proficiency, not to mention the myriad of other passive boosts and also not counting the additional mods & gear you can fit onto higher level dropsuits? Oh yeah, that only makes you a 2% more effective. Once you max your core skills, you can branch out to make yourself more versatile. So even though the maxed AR player isn't getting any better with his AR, he's boosting his skills with his mass driver so he can switch to it and grenade spam you with it mid match, causing you to have to adapt without the advantage of his versatility. Lastly, we do corp battles plenty, and if anything a players versatility and SP gain is even more pronounced in a corp match than in a pub match. Try playing a corp battle before you start calling others pubbies. They are grinding less. Buying a booster doesn't magically unlock some mythic 6th level to get in a skill, nor does it give you some crazy bonus. Boosters literally do nothing more than increase your progression through skills; everything a character with Boosters can attain can be attained by a character without them in a reasonable amount of time and effort. That's not pay to win. That's pay to grind less. I am not a savant, and I am performing rather well. The exceptions are, of course, the corp squads with four people coordinating together, but you'd have a hard time fighting two competent players in basic suits anyway, provided they're coordinating. Note that I mentioned core skills. If you've been playing for a couple weeks, you've got all that trained. I don't even have them trained to 5 right now and, as I've said, I've been performing well. This isn't EVE; the player behind the dropsuit matters more than the exact multiplier. Versatility is a much more difficult quality to quantify as being overpowering. At the end of the day, though, being versatile doesn't make you any more dangerous in a single spawn. You're in one configuration or the other, not both at the same time. Corp matches will always contain the most competitive players tweaking the slightest benefits whenever possible. Ultimately, however, it's teamwork and coordination that will make or break the match; no one is going to be accepting battles against more serious corporations without being on their level. You select your opponents, and if they're more tryhard than you are, you just wait until your SP is the same. Then you get crushed anyway because SP can't make up for skill. But hey, go ahead and fight against boosters; veterans would love to keep new characters from closing the holy SP gap they see as putting them ahead of everyone else. Actually, I'm more in the line of thinking where you have a cap for active boosters once you reach a certain SP level, then all of your remaining SP boost is added to your passive skill boosters. Or perhaps they only activate for a week out of the month once you reach the cap. Of course I know it'll never happen, but it would allow boosters to serve the purpose of helping new players catch up faster to older players. Older players could still get normal SP gains for their efforts as well as passive boosts, and new players could gain SP faster in order to reach that SP cap on their boosters if they wish to spend the money on them. Sounds fair to me anyway. Either way, I'd at least like to see a temp cap set on SP gains from boosters until boosters can be bought with ISK. |
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